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Kelis vs Beyonce (Or Sampling vs Interpolation)

90’s RnB legend, Kelis, took to social media last week to express her unhappiness at the fact that a portion of her mega-hit, “Milkshake”, has been used on the new Beyonce track “Energy”, and that she wasn’t told about it. She found out when everybody else did … when the song was released. “It’s not a collaboration, it’s thievery,” she said.

It’s since been reported that Beyonce’s team quietly removed the offending part from the song altogether and reuploaded it (the joys of retroactive production in the streaming era… Ask Kanye about it).

The general sentiment that I’m hearing is this (in my words):

“Kelis is pissed because Beyonce sampled her song without asking/telling her”.

There’s a bit more to it than that so let’s break it down, word by word in painful detail, to find out what’s going on here …

“Kelis … ”

This is the mononymous stage name (and given name) of US musician and performer Kelis Rogers. When you check out a Kelis record that’s the name you see on the front:

When Kelis Rogers has a writer credit on a song she will likely be listed by her actual name, rather than her performer name (even though they are kind of the same). For example:

I know it seems over-engineered to point this out but the distinction between the concepts of performer and songwriter will be important later.

“… is pissed because … ”
You get it … Kelis has posted a couple of videos about the situation and she’s not happy, on a few levels.

“… Beyonce … ”
As above, this is the mononymous stage name of US musician and performer Beyonce Knowles. The name Beyonce will be seen anywhere she is performing while any songwriting credits will appear as B. Knowles or similar.

“ … sampled … ”
OK, here is where we need to make some distinctions.

A “sample” as it’s traditionally known, is a sample of a sound recording. That is, someone has taken a snippet of an existing recording and reused it in their own recording. When using a sample you need to get permission from the owners of the copyright in that sound recording or track (often the record label) and also the permission from the owners of the copyright in the underlying composition or song (often the publisher).

For example, if I want to sample a piece of Jimi Hendrix’s “All Along the Watchtower” I need to get permission from the owners of that recording (let’s say it’s Jimi Hendrix’s record label) and permission from the owners of Bob Dylan’s songwriting catalogue (Universal, since they bought it in 2020).

But here’s the rub: The Beyonce song has used an interpolation, not a sample, of “Milkshake”.

An interpolation is the usage of an existing composition without using a sample of the sound recording. This can be done by recreating the recording yourself, note for note. Or it could be that you’ve recreated a part of a melody and added different words, or maybe you even used the same words. Either way, to use an interpolation you only need permission from the owner of the composition, not the owner of the sound recording (because you didn’t use any of the sound recording).

Case in point: The Sugarhill Gang didn’t sample the bassline from Chic’s “Good Times” for their track “Rapper’s Delight”, they re-recorded it. Interpolated it. So, while Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards get writing credits on the song, their label doesn’t receive royalties on the master side.

Also:

And:



He had to sue for it, but Manu Dibango is credited as a songwriter on “Wanna be Starting Something” because of MJ’s little riff on the Soul Makossa refrain.

100% of the composition of “Milkshake” is credited to Chad Hugo and Pharrell Williams (known in their producer role as The Neptunes).

0% is credited to Kelis Rogers.

Credit from the ‘Milkshake’ CD single cover art 

Credits per the APRA Work Search

“Her song …”

Identifying “Milkshake” as Kelis’ song is not as straight forward as it sounds.

She is inextricably attached to that song, of course. She performed and recorded it. It was a massive hit. Millions of copies sold, the video was everywhere, it was all over every End of Year compilation, the song paved the way for others that came after. “Milkshake” by Kelis was huge. In that way, it’s clearly a Kelis song.

But as far as ownership goes it’s likely that her record company owns the sound recording of that song, for which she would be paid a royalty on sales/streams, and the ownership in the underlying composition rests with Pharrell Williams and Chad Hugo’s publishers, for which Kelis receives nothing at all.

“ … Without asking/telling her.”

Again, if all of the above is correct then it’s established that no permission was needed from Kelis to use an interpolation of the composition underlying the recording “Milkshake”, recorded and performed by Kelis, produced by The Neptunes, with songwriting credit to Hugo/Williams.

Maybe it would’ve been nice for Beyonce to reach out to Kelis and mention it, if that’s the kind of relationship they have. But as far as copyright law and the concept of theft is concerned, there was no obligation to talk to Kelis about anything.

With all that said, there are some other fish to fry here. One issue is the very fact that Kelis has no songwriting credits on the song at all. She has claimed that Williams and Hugo had “lied and tricked” her into a raw deal. Instead of splitting things “33/33/33”.

Kelis only has writer credits on six out of the 14 tracks on the album “Tasty”, from which “Milkshake” was taken.

To me, this is a problem.

In the music world, there are no hard and fast rules for how writer credits are handled or registered. It’s solely down to the people involved. Lennon and McCartney take writer credits for most Beatles songs. But who’s to say that the drum part Ringo played in “Come Together” wasn’t integral to the composition of the song? Answer: No-one is to say that, except the people in the room at the time when deciding how to divvy up the splits.

Famously, Radiohead credit every member of the band as songwriters on almost all their songs, even though Thom Yorke may bring in a fully formed song for the band to play. That’s totally their business. As an aside, Radiohead also had to credit Albert Hammond and Mike Hazlewood on their song “Creep”, due to the pair taking them to court over similarities to The Hollies hit “Air That I Breathe”.

On another somewhat related note, Twitter blew up this week when superstar songwriter Dianne Warren tweeted:

“How can there be 24 writers on a song?”

People have taken this as a passive/aggressive jab at Beyonce, and the wider black music community, for the amount of names that appear in the credits of “songs these days”. There have been many takes on this tweet and the ratio is real. I won’t go into too much depth here but a tweet reply from Questlove articulated a couple of points really well:

“In these post “Blurred Lines” times you’re gonna see a lot of it. I actually applaud her giving people a seat at the table who otherwise woulda NEVER been considered otherwise. Like she didn’t “have to” credit the “Show Me Love” crew but just outta respect she did them a solid.”

He goes on:

“Imagine if Led Zep, The Stones, Beatles, British Invasion did the due diligence — — -and credited the people to whom their catalogue is derivative from?”

There are a couple of things to note here:

  • Dianne Warren has boomer takes drenched in “musicians these days don’t even play REAL instruments!!” energy.
  • Lawsuits like the “Blurred Lines” case have made people overly careful to credit not only samples and interpolations but also “vibes” and “feels”… anything that could possibly end in a lawsuit.
  • More and more these days “everyone in the room” is getting credit for the outcome of a session. Peoples’ input is being recognised and they’re being rewarded for it. Maybe as it should have been back in Dianne’s day.
  • People have been using past influence to make music for a long time. Notably, white musicians using music of black origin. A difference now is that people are (sometimes) getting credited for it. This tweet from Zack Fox lives with me rent free:

    “if you watch the elvis movie backwards it’s about a white dude waking up next to a toilet and giving black people their music back”

Should Kelis have a writer credit on “Milkshake”? Probably. It would be hard to imagine that she lent nothing to the song’s creation. Her whole persona and energy could have shaped aspects of the composition that wouldn’t be the same without her.

As mentioned above, according to Kelis, there was a prior agreement in place for writer credits to be split equal thirds with the Neptunes guys and it wasn’t followed through with. Chad and Pharrell own 100% of that song between them. Kelis: 0%. That speaks to more than just copyright law.

Matt Bird is a partner and senior royalty analyst at White Sky Royalty Accounting. 

This piece was originally published on Medium and has been republished here with permission. 




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Mary Rodgers Opens Up About Her Life in and Around Broadway in ‘Shy’

Mary Rodgers had, as the daughter of Broadway musical icon Richard Rodgers, had a front-row seat for much of the inner workings of New York theater in the latter half of the 20th century. Now the story of her life and many stories of the Great White Way have been published in Shy, which is one of the best theatrical memoirs since Moss Hart’s Act One, which, of course, is the gold standard of theatrical memoirs. Where Hart may have played fast and loose with some of the facts to make for a great story, Rodgers, with co-author Jesse Green, is brutally honest with its facts and fact checking—which also make for a great story.

Shy has a conversational style that seems to bring the reader in the room with Rodgers. One feels that she is just chatting away, letting whatever comes out of her mouth go down unedited. [Not true: It was really edited and expertly so.] Rodgers comes off as a charming, highly intelligent and cultured Lucy Van Pelt, and 458 pages is hardly enough time to spend with her.

I never met Mary Rodgers and have only seen a few video clips of her, but in these pages her voice comes across loud and clear. She does not spare herself any more than anyone else. Probably because of that, you will likely finish this book wishing, like Holden Caulfield, that “the author that wrote it was a terrific friend of yours and you could call him up on the phone whenever you felt like it.” She is engaging, self-effacing and a great storyteller.

Rodgers was also in a unique position to drop names, and she drops them like pennies from heaven. For starters, there are Daddy and Ockie and Steve (to the rest of us: Rodgers and Hammerstein and Sondheim, respectively). Theater geeks, nerds and wonks will love the name-dropping. Others will enjoy the engaging prose and they will likely learn a lot about theater, its habitués and a few sons of habitués.

rodger shy Green memoir
Mary Rodgers’ memoir, Shy, written with Jesse Green, is a brutally honest and extremely entertaining story of the daughter of Richard Rodgers. Mary Rodgers, was successful on and off-Broadway, on TV and in young adult books.
Left: Rodgers-Beaty-Guettel family / Right: The New York Times, Earl Wilson

Rodgers was inside Broadway when the Broadway musical was at the center of the entertainment universe. And she seems to have had dealings with most if not all of its players—from Lorenz Hart in the 1930s up to Adam Guettel in the early 2000s.

Some scores are settled and a lot of secrets are revealed. The book has many surprises, even for the jaded chatterati: She reveals early on that Sondheim was the love of her life; they even had a “trial marriage,” which she details in very uncomfortable detail. Not much less discomforting is the story of her first marriage, which turned abusive. On a lighter note, Rodgers introduces the word gridge into the lexicon. (Don’t bother looking it up, but in context you’ll know what she means, and ever after you will look for an opportunity to drop it into a conversation.)

There are also some lesser lights who are treated lesser-ly such as Arthur (Laurents) and Marshall (Barer). Laurents, here, is seen as the source of all evil in the universe. Barer, a frequent collaborator of Mary’s, is described warts and all, and, for all his talent, there isn’t a lot of “and all.”

It has to be added that Shy‘s footnotes—and there are many—are must reading. They elaborate on, comment on and sometimes even undercut the text. Occasionally they form a conversation between Rodgers and Green. For many readers, the footnoted names will be familiar; for others, the footnotes are informative. Often they are entertaining and funny, captioning a line or phrase in the text like Ron Howard’s narration in Arrested Development. After about 40 pages, I found myself reading the footnotes first then scanning the page for the relevant asterisks and daggers and slings and daggers.

Rodgers’ first major success was with the musical Once Upon a Mattress, a satirical updating of the fairy tale “The Princess and the Pea,” with book and lyrics by Barer, that started as a one-act sketch at Tamiment, an adult summer camp in the Poconos. It was expanded for Broadway, and directed by George Abbott. Mattress remains one of the funniest musical comedies, and it still gets revived a lot. It was still making Rodgers six figures a year in royalties at her death in 2014.

Here, too, is another way that Shy diverges from Act One, which ended on a note of life-changing triumph—his Broadway breakthrough with Once in a Lifetime. Rodgers, however, had much more to tell. Rodgers and Green blow past that event early on in the book.

In 1972, she wrote Freaky Friday, a young adult novel in which a mother and daughter switch bodies for a day. It spawned a few sequels and a couple of movies. For another, younger, generation, the name Mary Rodgers and Freaky Friday are synonymous.

In between, she contributed to The Mad Show, a very successful satirical revue that featured, among others, the work of Barer and Sondheim, the latter under the pseudonym Esteban Rio Nido. The show ran for 21 months off-Broadway.

After all this, Rodgers became board chair at The Juilliard School. She had no trouble shifting gears and changing directions.

Shy does not shy away from Rodgers’ personal life. Hardly. All the hurts, arguments and emotional problems she had with family, friends and sworn enemies are laid bare.

When your father composed the music for some of the most iconic musicals in the 20th century, perhaps daddy issues are unavoidable. And when you go into that same father’s business, they are definitely unavoidable. Rodgers confronts them head on. If he was critical, Mary does not dismiss the hurt; but neither does she blame sexism. She says that he would be just as critical were she a man. She can be ruthlessly objective.

If Rodgers did have musical theater ambitions, she did not compete with her father, Sondheim or her son Adam Guettel, composer of such works as Floyd Collins and Light in the Piazza. She had a strong if hypercritical, view of her talent and its limitations.

It will be very easy to breeze through Shy: It scans very easily. But if you do, go back a look through it again. There is a lot to take in. I did miss having an index. Like any great work, Shy manages to leave you satisfied but yearning for more. A neat trick: Rodgers probably could have been a magician. After a life well-lived and well recorded, Mary Rodgers died in 2014, and Shy makes a great case that that was much too soon.


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Calling all Dancers! Choreographer Trandee Rock to Host Dance Workshops in a Tour of The UK

FrontRow Global Limited has announced their upcoming partnership to host multiple Dance Workshops around the UK. These workshops will be led by Trandee Rock, who has famously choreographed dances for The Boyz dance cover of BlackPink’s ‘Kill This Love’ and The Boyz ‘Hypnotized’. 

TR Workshop Schedule

(Photo : Kreaon)

READ ALSO: #TWICEinNY: TWICE Brings Hot Performances to New York During North American Leg of Their ‘III’ World Tour 

Trandee Rock has also worked with and choreographed some of the top idols and artists in the K-POP industry such as NCT, SHINEE, MAMAMOO, EXO, ASTRO, SUPERM, And KAI of SM Entertainment. 

This will also be the first offline dance workshop organized by FrontRow’s The Director Team. The Director App, which launched May 2022, was created to be the first Korean-class style app to bring K-Content to global audiences, and features over 200+ classes designed to help users build careers in South Korea. The Director App can be downloaded here.

The first workshop will be held September 30th in London, with following workshops beginning October 1st in London, and Frankfurt on October 2nd. Each workshop will feature 3 separate sessions, a meet and greet, as well as a Random Dance Play.

Dancers will have the option of buying each session individually,  or purchasing a day pass that will include access to all sessions for the workshop.

Tickets are available now, and can be purchased on Eventbrite, or here via The Director Facebook page.

RELATED ARTICLE: SM Entertainment’s Performance Director in Singapore for Dance Workshop




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Andi ‘Green Girl’ – youngest ever music exec in Jamaica | Entertainment

At age 23 years, she was the top executive for Donovan Germain’s Penthouse Records in Jamaica, handling the likes of Marcia Griffths, Beres Hammond and Buju Banton, among others. More than two decades later, many in the music industry are wondering where she is and why she is no longer a prominent player in the industry.

Say the name Andi Green, Andi Browne or Green Girl and there is no question among many top musicians to whom you are referring. Today, Green quietly works for a major hardware company in Jamaica and has stayed out of the music industry and its limelight.

When The Sunday Gleaner caught up with her for a telephone interview, she admitted that she walked away from it for family reasons.

“My children were young and I needed to devote time to raising them. They faced many challenges and I needed to be there for them,” Green said.

To understand the bug she was bitten by, you need to revisit her early days at St Hugh’s High School and her love for performing, whether singing, drama or production. Forbidden by her aunt to perform, Green nevertheless found ways to let her talent shine. She was back-up singer for several artistes; was a member of an all-girls singing group, toured Japan and other places, and later managed several artistes.

“Every now and then, I get swept up into a magical flashback moment of good times past. I giggle to myself as I feel like a Forrest Gump. It’s like I was right in the swirls of magical musical moments. Sigh … the micro-seeming moments are still so nice and fresh in my mind,” she told The Sunday Gleaner.

Green recalled that it was Dave Kelly who invited her to join Penthouse Records.

“After leaving Castro Brown’s New Name Music as a studio manager at 22 years old, Dave recommended me and invited me to Penthouse as a studio secretary. Donovan Germain made me general manager and a director before I was 25,” said Green.

She spoke of the beautiful years of growing in confidence, fuelled by great leadership.

Penthouse Music was the first record company in Jamaica to pay artistes royalties for their music. “ I remember when I gave Marcia Griffiths the first cheque and she wanted to know what it was for,” she said.

She also shared other nuggets of a past life. For example, when Buju Banton first came to Penthouse, the studio was really looking for singers but Green felt that this deejay had something special and he was taken under her wings. Beres Hammond’s debut single for Penthouse, Tempted to Touch, was done as a tribute to her.

Briefly caught up in the nostalgia of the past, Green zeroed in on the era which saw her as a participant in the dawning of many great dreams coming to pass. ‘Twas the era pre-Reggae Sumfest; pre-Penthouse Showcase on IRIE FM; and pre-Ja Ja Jah All Stars of Reggae Japansplash.

“It was the time of JFM Awards, Rockers Awards, Jammy Awards, Coca-Cola Teen Splash, Reggae Sunsplash. Mykal Rose was a ‘Grammy Roze’ and 809 [band] was a reggae bed of niceness. It was the time of dreams of Madhouse [Records] … when the Melody Makers were on the road nuff nuff. Beach shows from Fort Clarence to Negril were well attended as long as it’s not on a Rae Town night. Epiphany swung all night and Skateland still welcomed the Ouch Crew and Sparks Bike Club. Music Works was right next door and 56 Slipe Road [Penthouse’s former address] became an address for musical dreams to come alive. It became business, royalties and all. So said Sister Marcia to Beres and Sly agreed. Right there in the lobby of Penthouse Records, Germain meant business,” Green recollected.

Today, Andi Green is no longer a part of the active music scene in Jamaica, although she maintains numerous contacts in the industry and recalls fondly her halcyon days.

Will she get back? She does not think so but continues to follow the progress through her contacts at the Jamaica Federation of Musicians, of which she is a foundation member.


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How Justin Blau’s Web3 Startup Is Trying to Disrupt the Music Industry

  • Justin Blau, also known as DJ 3LAU, is the cofounder and CEO of Web3 startup Royal.
  • The platform allows fans to buy tokenized royalties of their favorite artists’ songs or albums.
  • Out of the $42 billion in annual revenue generated by the music industry, 12% goes to artists.

In his high school yearbook, Justin Blau’s senior quote was to one day “revolutionize the music business.”

From the outside, Blau’s career has taken several unexpected turns: Credit Suisse intern, EDM artist, and, as of last year, the cofounder of a Web3 startup backed by venture giants like Andreessen Horowitz. But the long-time DJ and producer told Insider that music “was always a part of the plan.”

The Las Vegas, Nevada native grew up the son of a hedge fund manager, who previously dreamed of working at Goldman Sachs. While enrolled at Washington University in St. Louis as a finance major, he landed internships at both Credit Suisse and UBS. 

Blau, better known by his stage name 3LAU, picked up music and began performing while trying to get his foot in the door on Wall Street. “I showed up at Credit Suisse and two interns had my song on their iPod,” Blau told Insider in 2012. “Back then, that was awesome.” 

But he soon declined offers from major financial firms like BlackRock and dropped out of college to pursue music full time. The mashup artist, whose work quickly went viral, began playing at major festivals like Lollapalooza and Electriz Zoo, along with producing remixes for Rihanna, Ariana Grande, and Katy Perry. In 2016, he launched an independent music label called Blume Records.

“It became central to my life sooner than I expected. I thought I’d first go into finance to make enough money to retire in a forest somewhere and make cool music,” Blau said. “But the internet, social media, and the rise of dance music all really took off at the same time I started producing. DJ’ing college shows quickly transitioned into playing festivals and a full-time music career.”

Justin Blau’s dive into Web3 

In 2017, Ethereum piqued Blau’s interest after reading blog posts and thinking about what ownership on-chain could look like. These included NFTs, or non-fungible tokens, in contexts like ticketing to concerts. In 2018, he later put on the first blockchain-powered music festival. 

Blau recalls connecting with crypto heavyweights like Gemini’s Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, along with NFT marketplace Nifty Gateway’s Duncan and Griffin Cockfoster, who he cited as early influences of his journey into the nascent space.

After touring for the better part of the last decade, Blau shifted full focus to his new venture, Royal, in 2021. Cofounded with former Opendoor exec JD Ross, Royal is a music rights marketplace that allows fans to purchase tokenized royalties or fractionalized ownership of their favorite artists’ work.

“This could facilitate a change that I’ve been waiting to see for most of my career as an independent artist,” Blau said. “We have a lot of work to do. It’s really heads down. I’m focused on myself and my team, making sure that this technology enables everything we want it to do.”

In November, Royal announced a $55 million Series A, with backing from Andreessen Horowitz’s crypto arm. Other participants in the round include Paradigm, Coinbase Ventures, along with artists like Nas and The Chainsmokers. 

Blau is quick to separate what Royal is doing from the category “music NFTs,” however, adding that his startup offers LDAs, or “limited digital assets” for fans eager to back creators. Over 10,000 collectors have invested more than $1.5 million in music rights on the platform, per data from Royal. 

Disrupting the music industry 

NFTs are basically, per Blau, a certificate of authenticity on the blockchain. On-chain tokenized assets can lend something to the music industry that it doesn’t currently have, an artist-to-fan monetization pipeline.

“Music NFTs are maybe a more simple way that Twitter is referring to the intersection of Web3 and music,” Blau said.

Out of the $42 billion in annual revenue generated by the music industry 12% goes to artists, per a report from startup Audius. Additional data indicates that 90% of streams from major platforms like Apple Music and Spotify go to the top 1% of artists, Rolling Stone reported.

Royal’s Blau and Ross are trying to disrupt this by making music royalties a more accessible asset.  Last week, the startup announced that token collectors will earn $36,000 in royalties across four songs in their first round of pay-outs to fans.

“It’s very rare that fans actually have any ownership in music whatsoever,” Blau said. “The idea that you can own a piece of a song and get paid alongside your favorite artists was something that was always exciting to me and the fact that we made it work last week is quite incredible.”

He added: “We started the company 14 months ago so all of this stuff takes time like new technologies do. I would say we’re really in the dial-up internet era of what blockchains are capable of.” 


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‘I Don’t Know If I Should Lie Or Not About How Much I Made From ‘LongLife’ – BodyBeatz Cries Out.

Welcome once again to all readers and followers of Kuul Pup The Promoter. Thank you if you are already a follower but please kindly click on the Follow+ button at the top right corner for more informative, entertaining, and trending news daily. Thank you all once again but don’t forget also give your likes and comments on this article.

When it comes to Ghanaians, whenever a musician or a producer brings a hit song into the airwaves, it is assumed that they instantly become millionaires or even billionaires and such creative personnel is forced not to cry out about being broke or not having enough money and this seems to be bringing pressure on these acts as they have to always appear just as Netizen’s and the public wants them to look like.

The moment a Ghanaian celebrity complains of not having enough to fend for him or herself after coming into the limelight, it is assumed by Ghanaians that they have either misused their royalties from their hit acts or are fast spenders. Some examples of such celebrities who have faced trolling from Ghanaians after complaining of being broke and are therefore in need of financial assistance are the former television star, TT of “Taxi Driver” fame who died recently after battling some ailments, and hi life musician

formerly of Zylophon Music and “I Have A Dream” crooner, Kumi Guitar, whose life as a taxi driver was changed by Nana Appiah Mensah popularly known as “Nam 1” after he was signed to Nam 1’s record label but Kumi Guitar unfortunately couldn’t manage the little he got from his signing and later came to plead with Ghanaian’s to assist him financially which made him a target for trolls on social media.

The recent celebrity who has also “served” himself as food for trolls is Takoradi-based music engineer, “BodyBeatz” who recently took to his Instagram handle to address the issue of how his life has been after producing the hit song of hi life singer, Fameye’s “Long Life” which he featured heavyweight rapper and singer, Kwesi Arthur of Ground Up record label.

According to BodyBeatz, he doesn’t know how to answer people who ask him whether he made a fortune from producing the hit song or not as he is not sure himself whether he has benefitted from producing the song. He captioned the post “This world er

Hmmm

When they ask “how much have you made from Fameye’s Long Life (feat. Kwesi Arthur)” I don’t know if I should lie or say the truth.🥺🥺🥺”.

From BodyBeatz’s post, it seems that even though the “Long Life” made waves and was played throughout the country and beyond, he didn’t make much from it but to avoid the trolling of Ghanaians, he has kept mute over it. BodyBeatz has not produced hit songs for only Fameye but other great artists like the late Ebony Reigns, Kofi Kinaata, and Wendy Shay. Below is the post he made:

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Iconic Rolling Stones logo creator no longer gets royalties

It gave him shelter.

The creator of The Rolling Stones’ iconic tongue and lips logo used the money from its copyright sale to buy a house, he told The Post.

“That was enough for me to buy my own flat in London,” said graphic designer John Pasche. “So from that point of view, it wasn’t negligible.”

He sold the copyright to the logo in 1982 for close to $28,000 — meaning he no longer gets any royalties — because of stringent laws in England that favored the organization an emblem belonged to rather than the art maker.

The 77-year-old’s logo, dubbed Hot Lips, is considered the most famous in music history, but the artist behind it unusually tight-lighted about it.

“Well, I don’t often tell [people] … why should I? he said.

John Pasche was a 25-year-old art student when the Rolling Stones called upon him to make a logo.
John Pasche was a 25-year-old art student when the Rolling Stones called upon him to make a logo.

But more fans will become aware of his name now that he is featured in the docuseries “My Life as a Rolling Stone,” premiering this Sunday on EPIX.

“I think a lot of people sort of found out, particularly after this film,” he added.

In 1970, the then-25-year-old Brit was getting his master’s in design at London’s Royal College of Art when the band called the school asking for a student’s assistance. He didn’t know at the time that the group hadn’t paid taxes for years and had no money in the bank.

Pasche's logo design is now considered one of the most iconic images in music.
Pasche’s logo design is now considered one of the most iconic images in music.
PA Wire/Press Association Images
Pasche's firts job for the group was their 1970 European tour poster, above.
Pasche’s first job for the group was their 1970 European tour poster, above.
John Pasche poses with his design in Paris in 2017.
John Pasche poses with his design in Paris in 2017.
Monceau/SIPA/Sipa USA

“I didn’t know about the background of it all. They got into a lot of trouble with their taxes with their old manager … He sold a lot of their music, so a lot of the stuff from the ’60s actually doesn’t belong to them anymore,” he explained. 

Pasche, who still works on his craft from his home in the English countryside, started his job with the Stones by designing their 1970 European tour poster.

Several months later, Mick Jagger asked him to create their logo. The famed frontman gave him a photo of a Hindi goddess with a pointed tongue as reference material.

Pasche is still an active artist.
Pasche is still an active artist.
The iconic logo hands above the stage during one of the band's concert in 1975.
The iconic logo hands above the stage during one of the band’s concert in 1975.
Michael Ochs Archives
Frontman Mick Jagger initially gave Pasche an image of a Hindu goddess as inspiration.
Frontman Mick Jagger initially gave Pasche an image of a Hindu goddess as inspiration.
Getty Images

“I just focused suddenly on the tongue and thought that would be an interesting image for them given their background and the way that they were quite anti-authority and rebellious,” he said of the artwork, which earned him 50 pounds.

He is used to dispelling the myth that the image he drew were the lush lips of the lead singer.

“He’s got quite a remarkable mouth, it’s kind of iconic on its own,” he quipped. “I understand why people make that connection.”

Mick Jagger, left, and Keith Richards performing in 1973.
Mick Jagger, left, and Keith Richards performing in 1973.
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The logo is still a popular reference point for rock fans to this day.
The logo is still a popular reference point for rock fans to this day.
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Devotees of the British rockers also get very personal satisfaction from the logo, Pasche learned.

“A few years back, a Rolling Stones fan sent me an email and it was a picture of his girlfriend’s bottom with the logo tattooed on it,” he said. “It was a bit embarrassing.”


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From the Archives, 1993: The Seekers

The Seekers at the Southern Cross Hotel.

The Seekers at the Southern Cross Hotel.Credit:Percy Spiden

“It is very hard to get four people to agree on anything,” said British-born and now Sydney-based producer Richard Lush, who worked at some of the Seekers’ most famous sessions at Abbey Road Studios during the 1960s.

“Tom Springfield (the brother of Dusty), who wrote and produced some of the Seekers’ biggest hits, was so meticulous that they often took weeks to put down but they (the group) were very easy to work with,” he said. “Towards the end there were personality problems. Judith wanted to go one way and the guys another. Bruce and Keith were writing different songs too and wanting to go different ways.” In January this year, weeks after the Ford deal had been signed and the group had completed recording Woodley’s `Keep A Dream In Your Pocket’ and Durham’s `One World Love’, `The Sunday Age’ Spy columnist Lawrence Money asked Durham’s manager, John Kovac, about the reunion.

“She won’t be doing it,” he said.

`The Sunday Age’ has learned that the Seekers will open their national tour at Perth Concert Hall on 3 April, perform in Melbourne at the Concert Hall on 4 May, and complete the tour in Darwin on 22 May.

Their record company, EMI, will soon release the Seekers’ `Jubilee’ album, featuring the two new songs written by Woodley and Durham. A third original written by Potger and Guy, `You’re My Spirit’, which is dedicated to one of Guy’s racehorses, could find itself on a second album.

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“There was no need to re-record their old hits because the old productions still sound fantastic,” said EMI Australia’s Bill Robertson. “All we had to do was make sure the new songs were in keeping with the Seekers’ sound. A punk sound wouldn’t have been any good to Seekers’ fans.” The Seekers will tour New Zealand and perform at the Albert Hall in London in September as part of a European tour. There are also plans to tour the US and Canada.

Reliving the Seekers’ magic in Australia will cost fans $42.90. Each capital-city live performance will gross an average $100,000 and give each Seeker around $15,000 if the spoils are divided evenly.

“I think it’s been in the oven for a while, this cake,” said promoter Harry M. Miller, who presented the three original male Seekers singers with a young Dutch woman, Louisa Wisseling, in the mid-1970s. That get-together produced a No.1 Australian hit, `The Sparrow Song’.

It was Durham, the reclusive diva, whose search for her own identity ended the Seekers’ dream run in 1968 when they were at the height of their fame. They broke up in July that year and marked the occasion with a small farewell party at Guy’s London flat.

It is incredible that until they met a year ago in an Italian restaurant in South Yarra the four had not been together since that break-up party.

“We didn’t really talk business in the end,” recalled Guy. “We just had a few laughs and reminisced over some pretty funny times. I think some people around us were aware of what was going on.” Durham refused for many years to give in to pressure from promoters, fans and Guy, the unofficial Seekers boss, to get back together. She has referred several times to the personality clashes within the group, the downside of stardom and her failure to come to terms with the Seekers’ musical direction.

Soon after the break-up she told entertainment writer Jim Murphy: “My five years with the Seekers I regard as an interlude. I was never dedicated musically to what the group was doing … ” And in 1987 Durham told `The Age’: “I’ve tried to visualise how we’d be if we got back together and I think it would be so sad for people because we are crystallised at our best in people’s minds and on album covers.” Perhaps it was the fatal car accident in 1990 involving Durham and her British-born husband, Ron Edgeworth, near Kyneton in Victoria, that helped change her mind. The 27-year-old driver of the other vehicle involved in the crash died. Durham underwent six hours of emergency surgery, four months in hospital and a long rehabilitation.

Certainly, the accident precipitated Durham’s return to Melbourne after an absence of almost two decades, during which she and her musician husband had achieved credibility and a degree of success as a jazz duo across Europe and the US, and based themselves in Switzerland, France and, finally, Nambour in Queensland.

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“It’s fate that the accident happened in the state that we were born in,” said Durham’s sister, Brenda Sheehan, a successful jazz musician whose husband, Barry, is deputy vice-chancellor of Melbourne University.

“We hadn’t seen much of each other for years and I think because Judith was forced back to Melbourne (she had performed at the National Theatre on the eve of the accident) she realised there were a lot of things here for her.” In another amazing twist of fate, Athol Guy was driving a horse to Bendigo on the day of the car accident and had driven past the scene on the Calder Highway just five minutes before it happened.

“By the time I got back to my place the phone was running hot,” Guy said. “Bruce (Woodley) and Keith (Potger) had heard about the accident and were trying to find out how she was and there were TV crews trying to land on my (Gisborne) property to get my reaction to it all.” So the three male Seekers, none of whom had seen Durham for almost two decades, were individually reunited with their former colleague beside an Alfred Hospital bed.

It was early last year, about the time she stopped limping, that Durham received a letter from a fan in England. The fan pointed out that John Lennon’s death had ensured the Beatles would never reunite but a Seekers reunion remained a possibility and therefore should be attempted at any cost.

Durham was touched by the sentiment. That letter, combined with the forthcoming 25-year anniversary and subtle but mounting pressure from Guy, sealed her decision.

Judith Durham, 2015.

Judith Durham, 2015.Credit:Josh Robenstone

Of course, the financial benefits of such a project cannot be ignored.

Record company chiefs are still shaking their heads at the killing made by Skyhooks when that group reunited last year, and it is believed that Jimmy Barnes considered a Cold Chisel reunion for the same reason.

The Seekers enjoyed a string of hits across Australia and Europe before they broke up. The success culminated in `Georgie Girl’ reaching No.2 in the US and being nominated, in 1968, for an Academy Award.

The four musicians had been named Australians of the Year and had just completed a string of top-rating TV specials in Britain and a sell-out season at the Talk Of The Town. Paul Simon, on the brink of success himself, was writing songs for the band, notably `Some Day One Day’ and, with Bruce Woodley, `Red Rubber Ball’.

The Sydney-based rock historian Glenn A. Baker commented: “I think their achievements are really underrated. Not until Little River Band went to America in 1976 did any other Australian group go near equalling the Seekers. And since LRB there’s only been INXS.

“And like so many bands of their time, they got screwed. They probably earned a penny an album and their current royalties are probably no different. This (a reunion) is the one chance an act has to capitalise on the love a generation had for them.” Much has been placed on hold for the reunion, notably a Judith Durham solo album, completed and being held back by EMI. Guy, a marketing consultant and former advertising executive, also has substantial equine interests on the Gisborne property from which he has moved but still holds a 50 per cent stake.

He is a judge on Channel 10’s `New Faces’ and since the break-up has hosted his own TV variety show, worked as a TV quizmaster and been the Australian managing director for Laker Airlines. He became the Liberal MLA for Gisborne in 1971.

He made headlines in 1979 when he asked for an annual lifetime pension of $17,000 from the Parliamentary Superannuation Fund, saying he was forced to retire prematurely because of ill health. He was later awarded a lump sum of $47,000.

Woodley, whose 14-year marriage ended in 1986, has achieved some success as a songwriter and as a composer of advertising jingles.

Potger, who runs a musical publishing company in Sydney and has worked in film production, is now the only Seeker who lives outside Victoria.

It was Potger who resurrected the Seekers in the form of the New Seekers, six British singers plucked from an agency who got five songs in the British top-five, including the No.1 hits `You Won’t Find Another Fool Like Me’ and `I’d Like to Teach The World To Sing’.

Of course, those individual achievements never went close to equalling the success story that began in 1962 at a South Yarra cafe, The Treble Clef, when a classically-trained teenager not long out of Ruyton Girls’ Grammar School, joined three Melbourne High old boys to, quite literally, sing for their supper.


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Jesh Music Takes the Internet as a Blessing and Develops His Methods To Set an Example

Everyone has different goals they would like to achieve for themselves, which is one trait that all people have. Individuals have different goals, but when they are accomplished, it makes them very happy. However, the majority of people nowadays have a propensity to aimlessly pursue their objectives.

Before someone may be deemed successful in life, they must first accomplish a particular number of goals. Achievement of your set goals is a success. The most crucial thing in your life is to set your ideals. Since their story of triumph will greatly stimulate you to overcome hurdles in your own life. The life journey of Jesh music is something you need to learn about if you work in the music industry.

The music industry has completely taken over the internet with Jesh music. He had also triumphed in remix contests held on numerous websites, like Spinnin and others. Someone should learn from Jesh music about how to overcome challenges in life. Because he works from home and cannot stay put for weeks at a time to create the same tune.

The goal was, and still is, to create something that will monopolize online revenue. According to Jesh, such as the initial objective. He was quite clear about his objective and worked nonstop to get there. Not only did he take over the internet through the music business, but he also developed his methods and ruled the music industry.

He had some diverse viewpoints on the company. He says that although online services can bring a decent dinner to the desk, they cannot make any artist sufficiently wealthy. It would be challenging to count on a steady income flow from your customers. Being invested in the company’s development is crucial, and tenacity is the secret to success.

The main factor that affects financial outcomes is royalties. The general population, not just customers, always loves a single hit. According to him, contrary to what a lot of people claim, he can make a living online full-time.




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